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Recently we've been seeing a lot of concerns raised by users when staff take official actions with users, and of course with some recent bans the worries have resurfaced and have reached us. First and foremost I would like to stress that we only ever take steps such as these when there is ample onsite evidence that actions that breech our Terms of Service have occurred.
In this instance it has regarded the "USD Sales of Designs By Artists" section of the ToS, which reads as follows:
"This section governs the sale of derivative works (artworks incorporating official Aywas pet bases, SCC pets that have been submitted already, and HA avatar artwork). Players may only accept USD for their derivative artworks through the Commissions Platform or through the use of Artist Paintbrushes. Players are forbidden from negotiating or selling derivative artworks through any other means, or in any other location. This means that players may only receive USD direct to their PayPal account when in connection with a Commissions Platform official request, or when an administrator redeems a Paintbrush for them."
This was written into the ToS in June of last year when the feature was released, and a news post was made to make everyone aware. There is also a knowledgebase article which was linked in the news post and is linked on the Commissions Panel page, to ensure that the knowledge of this was clearly and easily accessible.
Previous to this all USD sales of derivative works were disallowed by the ToS, except through Paintbrushes when they were initialised. As such any purposeful circumvention is a permanently bannable offence.
The fee that the commissions platform takes is not to punish the artist, but a licence for them to profit from the use of our copyrighted materials. These fees also allow us to continue building and repairing the site, as well as support the many artists that work as contractors for us in the breeding and custom ticket systems.
No one on staff takes banning a user lightly, and none of us take any joy from it - it is simply a necessary part of the work we do to continue maintaining the website. As always, as long as you have read and abide by the ToS then you are not in any danger - and if you are ever in doubt about something you want to do, or something someone has asked you to do for them, then please contact a member of staff. We are here to help you and always happy to do so =)
Posted by Eve
(#2775) on Mon Apr 4, 2016 4:49pm
- Raina
(#35959)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:06pm
Espeon (#25910)
Except some rules are vague and not explained well if at all.
Also TOS isn't the law. Rules yes, laws no. A website can not make laws that is just stupid. :/
- 3 Dumb Sloths
(#557)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:07pm
Kyu & Mauri (#1010) Yeah we probably were, but the rest of my post still holds up without that part.
The users distrust the staff because the staff have continually hidden behind this wall of not telling users about things they have genuine concerns about whilst also telling users they're being completely open and transparent.
Which comes across as "yes we're open about things, but not that. or that. or this. or the other thing."
As it is, people are upset and worried because from what we HAVE been able to see what caused at least one of said bans could have happened to them because they were also under an assumption about a feature that has proved incorrect, and the person who had the same thought is now permanently banned.
The assumption was that no one was entirely sure exactly what SBC basing commissions would come under, a thing I was also confused about at first.
I'm honestly thankful I opted for just using the panel anyway because otherwise I could easily have been in this exact position.
I did make a Help topic in the Help forum, but that went unanswered.
I posted in the Help section over the Ask The Admin forum because a previous, unrelated, post in the Ask The Admin forum also went unanswered.
As a user of Aywas, I've become disillusioned in the site as a whole because of these issues that keep cropping up and are consistently mishandled or played down and the general consensus of other users I know who feel obligated to stay because they rely on their customers on Aywas or who have actually left the site is the same.
~UK
- Sharni&Gamzee
(#4917)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:21pm
Espeon (#25910) Actually, in alot of cases, a ToS isn't legally binding, and staff really wouldn't be able to take -anything- further unless the user actually broke an actual law or stole money like that one user did, and even then, not much gets done. Lets be honest here, a perma ban is really the worst the site can do.
A big reason this is, is because no one had to re-agree to the ToS when it got updated, filing it under browsewrap, making it non-applicable in court.
If you find this confusing, I can link you to something that explains the concept in greater detail.
And the reason this has become such a big deal is that its A), over 4 dollars that would have been repaid, and B), tension with the site has been building for a while. This is simply the breaking point for alot of older users.
- Silverstream94
(#24506)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:21pm
o-o I wasnt even aware of an issue at all... I tend to keep to my own most of the time...
- God
(#4)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:23pm
I can confirm, with PM proof, that offsite screenshot evidence was used against me in the determination (and subsequent revoking) of an official warning in the past. I'm not interested in dredging up old issues since it's long since been resolved, but the fact of the matter is that I know for an absolute fact that staff has used offsite evidence as a deciding factor in issuing disciplinary action. In my case, this evidence was proven to be taken entirely out of context and essentially framed me for something I didn't do. I have no comments to make about the current situation, this is simply the truth regarding my own experience.
- Conium
(#39365)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:32pm
I'm glad I've been in a depressive funk and haven't been able to take on many commissions, because I'd be in this exact situation. Plainly put, it's hard to drum up business when it involves the commissions panel. I can link all i want, make comments in the forums, exc, but the chances that I get traffic and orders coming into the panel are next to nothing in the entire time i've used it. on top of that the price is set, so there's no way to do modular orders- it's either one-size-fits all orders that might not work for people, or a ton of specialized orders. I was going to get into basing though because I figured it was like buying or finishing an unfounded scc, and finishing a base is faster and gets me more than the incredibly tiny 4$ I can grab off of the mdt panel... when there are any orders even coming through.
Now though I feel like I'm going to be screwed even if I use the commissions panel and go through the diplomat-style back and forth it'd take for me to set up the exact price for a customer. People are going to see this, and yet again go "aywas isn't a safe thing to put my money into" You know, like how it was about what... five or six years ago when everybody was getting banned for stupid reasons and encyclopedia dramatica was having a field day? Yeah that's really the management style we want to go back to.
Plainly put, for four bucks you shouldn't have smacked the banhammer down so hard. it's like how staff shouldn't be banning people for four bucks or so in fees they owe. Like i just got a full-time job recently, but hell if i'm going to spend money on this site if we keep having these no-warnings bans flying around.
so lemme get this straight, we need to not cross some invisible line when it comes to adventure (we don't know exactly what not to do, but hey just don't cross the line), we need to follow the not really clear rules about the commissions panel, or we get a banhammer, but you can't warn us in advance if we've done something that can be fixed, oh! and there might be some misinformation going around as well! Hooray!
So I guess my question is, you can't tell us what the line is over here, or warn us about the line over here, then...
WHAT CAN YOU GUYS ACTUALLY PUBLICLY TELL US ABOUT?! THESE DAYS Y'ALL JOBS SEEM PRETTY MUCH RESTRICTED TO "NOT TALK ABOUT ANYTHING" AND BANNING PEOPLE.
- shinycakes
(#63745)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:33pm
Sorry to continue this and all, but I was wondering if it'd be possible to staff and the userbase to discuss the rules, so there is a general consensus of what can and can't be done with the USD panel?
Since a lot of this stems from that panel, I feel like listening to users, while also keeping in place key rules (i.e., 18 years old)...
Sorry to bother!
- siver
(#62699)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:38pm
I have to admit it is very vague about the sketch pet basing but i also have a hard time reading.
So from what i understand is that any type of usd payment has to go through the Commission panel or be done on an official site team.
- Riri
(#48591)
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Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:53pm
The smallest Siver (#62699) Incorrect. Basically, if it goes officially through the site and exists on the site, you have to use the commission panel to take USD for it. This includes basing SBCs because it goes through a site artist and then the sketch exists on the site.
You don't have to use the panel for say, drawing character art, gijinkas, or SCCs that don't already exist because they aren't on the site yet.
Posted on: Mon Apr 4, 2016 6:05pm
*in my second to last paragraph, 'would' should be 'won't'.